| 0:00:03.39 | 8.4s | Ingrid Nuttall | I love you guys. Like we like, we like each other. I think you like me, we just like each other. You know, I'm white. Um You live with it |
| 0:00:11.93 | 13.1s | Tashana Curtis | and just because you're white, if I saw you on the street, I wouldn't try you. I just wouldn't because of, you know how the energy just, I wouldn't try you. |
| 0:00:25.70 | 5.3s | Ingrid Nuttall | OK? Because I'm so white. When you say try me, do you mean you wouldn't mess with me? |
| 0:00:31.0 | 6.3s | Tashana Curtis | I wouldn't mess with you. I wouldn't mess with you. You just look like the one like don't mess with her. |
| 0:00:37.29 | 1.2s | Ingrid Nuttall | Oh, I love that. |
| 0:00:53.95 | 62.0s | Ingrid Nuttall | Hi, everybody. Welcome to an extra special episode of H.E.A.R.D. If you've been listening since our first episode, you've, of course, been on our journey to dive deeper into diversity, equity and inclusion in higher education. And you've been on the journey of our friendship, Tashana, Portia and I have developed our friendship through this podcast. We have had a lot of conversations in between recording interviews about de I our work and our personal lives. We've been vulnerable and uncomfortable and we've given each other feedback and praise and we've gotten a lot closer. So for this episode, we are sharing one of those conversations with you. We didn't have a plan for this. We didn't have a theme or questions. We just got together to talk to talk about where we were after the election. And after kind of a long year for all of us, we'll return to our interviews next time, but for now, just hang out with us while we hang out with each other. I'll see you on the flip side. Ok. Cue bouncy music, please. Thank you, |
| 0:02:03.33 | 6.0s | Ingrid Nuttall | Tashana. I wanna know what's going on with you in school. Like where, where are you at? What are you studying? |
| 0:02:09.94 | 0.9s | Tashana Curtis | Ok. So |
| 0:02:11.58 | 0.7s | Ingrid Nuttall | kudos |
| 0:02:12.28 | 48.0s | Tashana Curtis | to me, I just completed, you know, within my program, you know, I elected to do a certificate track as well. So the certificate track was leadership and management which I completed. Yes, it was lot of, lot of lack of sleep, but I was able to complete that. So I'm just waiting for that to come in the mail and be confirmed and I should be completing my entire program. Hopefully by summer, I've been really trying to double up um on taking courses but and still work a full time job and still have a life outside with my two dogs. Um So yeah, I'm just, I'm treading through. |
| 0:03:00.63 | 8.1s | Ingrid Nuttall | Was there anything that came up that has come up through your studies that you've reflected on within the context of |
| 0:03:09.38 | 0.0s | Tashana Curtis | a |
| 0:03:09.83 | 1.3s | Ingrid Nuttall | lot of things? |
| 0:03:11.13 | 10.3s | Tashana Curtis | So for example, one of my courses we had to do um a trends project and of course you stick to what you know. So I did higher ed, a trend trend. |
| 0:03:21.80 | 0.2s | Portia LaMarr | Yes. |
| 0:03:22.5 | 62.5s | Tashana Curtis | So I picked higher ed. So my top three higher ed trends were a I um hybrid, hybrid and um in classroom learning. And what was my third one? I can't remember what the that oh actually do I diversity inclusion was my third one. So yes, and I was able to dig in the crates. I.e. I heard crates and pull out some important information, especially my culture. I know I keep notes so I was able to go in and pull out some interesting information. Um Actually didn't put his name in there, but I also used Doug mckenna a lot of his theories and a lot of his conversations into some of my paperwork. Um I should have gave him a reference but I didn't. But nonetheless, um so yeah, and again, just cutting through what |
| 0:04:24.60 | 10.3s | Portia LaMarr | um what about the other two? And I think that that is, I think we need to have a good conversation or find someone. I think we totally can, maybe I can ask my boss. But with A I A |
| 0:04:35.0 | 11.2s | Tashana Curtis | I, how are institutions going to really try to lock the A I thing down? I'm interested to know that |
| 0:04:46.20 | 127.9s | Portia LaMarr | I think, and I think the, the question before that is, do we know what A I truly is? And what it means for higher ed and then how can we lock it down? Like that's my other thought. Um I know people are, you know, talking about students and the work won't be their work anymore. Let me tell you something. I think that sometimes it's, I chuckle at a lot of the advancement that we have had and I'm like every just OK, so this is, y'all can laugh at me but I don't care. Um I was recently watching an Elvis documentary because I'm fascinated in the fascination of people have of Elvis, you know, and although, and he distribute to this as well, a lot of his stuff is from the black community. Um but it was seen in front of, you know, his, his culture as, as different and, and oh my gosh, this is terrible. How can we always take that route to? This is terrible and then it ends up being something that's like the norm, you know, like, why do we have to put ourselves through that so much? Why not? Just why can't we quickly accept what, what, what it is then? I, I sound, I might sound crazy and you might have to cut this out anger. But I'm just like, and ipod shuffle, remember that? Oh, no. Crazy music, you're getting ready in my music is gonna sound insane. And now it's all music is on our phones now. Like, I mean, it's just insane. It's insane to me on why we, we take these steps of, I hate it. This is terrible. This is horrible and it, and, and we do that to communities as well. It's the fear of the unknown that you actually act upon. But really nothing happens in your day to day life. It sometimes not with communities or whatever, but with technology, it can make it better or you have the choice to, to use it or to do or to not use it. And if we're clear, a lot of A I has already been implemented in a lot of things. People just don't even realize it. |
| 0:06:54.27 | 61.9s | Tashana Curtis | So when you say, and I'm frozen, but when you say um we have the choice to use it or not use it. I'm speaking from a older person point of view 50 over. Um it's sometimes we don't have a choice, we have to use it. Um Because I really, to be honest, I want a flip phone. I don't want all of that technology anymore, but I mean, it's like we're forced to use it because everybody around us is using it. And I remember growing up, you know, even with my grandparents and you'd be like, oh why do you still have this big old TV? Or why do you still have this rotary phone because it was convenient and it was easy to use. They don't want any new technology even though we know technology is constantly evolving. But when you get older, I don't want all of that. I just want to keep it simple. |
| 0:07:57.5 | 2.6s | Portia LaMarr | Can't it be both? I'm sorry. Go ahead, Ingrid. No, that |
| 0:07:59.67 | 72.6s | Ingrid Nuttall | I, I, I like the idea. Uh It can be both. I think it can be both, but I really like the idea of pushing back against something that feels inevitable. And I think that that is if there's anything that gives me hope in the world at all, it is that I think that the patterns of to take this up to like a super big level, like the patterns of history show you that certain kinds of actions lead to certain kinds of kinds of outcomes. But then there's also like the unpredictability of people, like people being like, no, I'm gonna take a, I'm gonna get a flip phone, I'm not gonna do that or I'm gonna, I'm not gonna be on social media. I'm, I'm not gonna participate in your space. Like the idea of resistance at an individual level is super, super powerful. And I think some of the things we've talked about are about individual choices like this podcast or like the difference that individual choices can make in making change for at least you and your life. And then if you get enough individuals doing something that can create systemic change. So I do think it's related because I, I think it and I think it can be, it can be both. |
| 0:09:12.89 | 16.0s | Portia LaMarr | We do need to talk about this flip phone, Tashana. Um, but I just remember having one, I was just like, and it had nothing to do with the technology. It's just the fact that if I'm talking on it, the hinges break. So I don't want this again. Now it's a flop phone because a |
| 0:09:29.14 | 8.1s | Ingrid Nuttall | flop phone. Oh, episode title, episode title. |
| 0:09:38.39 | 34.9s | Portia LaMarr | But, yeah. Um, I don't know. And I, I've always felt like I need to, I don't, it's not a fear, but I've always tried to be like, ok, even though I feel it creeping, like just to try, I don't, the way you feel is the way a lot of people start to maneuver their, their life. Um as they get older, they don't need all that extra. They don't need all of the unnecessary stuff. And I, I'm trying to battle that. It still slowly creeps up. But I'm like, I, I just don't want to be that person where I'm like, yeah, this is what I used to do and I don't know, I don't know if I'll ever, |
| 0:10:15.36 | 6.4s | Portia LaMarr | if it'll get me and I'll maybe like, I just want my iphone five back |
| 0:10:23.10 | 10.2s | Tashana Curtis | when I have to reach out to my daughter or Google, what somebody text me to understand the definition or what it means. That is a problem. |
| 0:10:34.47 | 10.9s | Portia LaMarr | That is. But, but then I'm like, is it a problem because like, is it a stain or an acronym or can we just be like what do you mean? What does that, what does that, what does that mean? |
| 0:10:46.34 | 0.1s | Ingrid Nuttall | I |
| 0:10:46.66 | 0.8s | Portia LaMarr | think we need, |
| 0:10:47.42 | 60.7s | Ingrid Nuttall | I, I feel like the three of us are kind of representing different approaches to change in ways that are all like valid and needed. It's like it's a real baby bear situation, like, too hot, too cold. Just right. And I, I love that Tashana is like, I want a flip phone. I love the idea of, I love the idea of people being like, I'm gonna use my example. I have a Kindle and I love the kindle because I can travel anywhere with it. And I like to have a lot of different book options. And I used to pack books in my suitcase when I traveled like many different books. And that was a real problem because then less shoes let me just say and now that I have the kindle, I can like, take a bajillion different books with me and I can flip flop back and forth between whatever I want. And I know so many people that are like, absolutely not. Absolutely no kindle. I want the physical touch of a book. |
| 0:11:48.20 | 3.5s | Portia LaMarr | Yeah, you can even like that. So just audio audio book. |
| 0:11:52.1 | 36.8s | Ingrid Nuttall | Yeah. And I would be, and that's fair because if everybody got a Kindle and there were no physical books left in the world, I'd be super sad. Like, let alone the problem that that would cause for people who can't afford a Kindle or don't have like access to the internet to be able to use it and download books like you still need libraries. So I do think it is um I think that it's like it's not binary, it's complex and nuanced and I, I love that example and I fully support you. Stay lay off Tashana because she is doing the hard work for us. She is part of the resistance. |
| 0:12:29.46 | 6.3s | Portia LaMarr | I'm not, I'm not, I, I want her to have her flip phone. Just do better. People who make flip phones |
| 0:12:37.11 | 1.9s | Ingrid Nuttall | don't make a flop phone. Yes. |
| 0:12:41.33 | 15.7s | Ingrid Nuttall | Hi. It's Ingrid. I thought a transition might help here. So after a while, our conversation turned to the blue bracelet phenomenon that you may have seen pop up after the election, we started there and then ended up someplace pretty different. So take a listen. |
| 0:12:57.53 | 6.5s | Portia LaMarr | Have you all heard about the uh Blue Bracelet movement? Uh |
| 0:13:05.3 | 4.0s | Tashana Curtis | No, I have not. See again. I gotta Google it |
| 0:13:10.1 | 32.3s | Portia LaMarr | and that's fine. I don't think that's wrong either because what that is showing is you're doing your due diligence. You're re you're a, you are willing to look it up and figure it out where some people don't do that. But anyhow, so after the election, the blue Bracelet movement is to in, in and you can fill in the blanks Ingrid if I'm missing things, but it's to show. So OK, go back. The election results showed that 92 or 93% African American women voted Kamala |
| 0:13:44.32 | 62.5s | Portia LaMarr | and a high percentage of African American males. But then I think it was like 50% women. And so that 50% that voted for her are trying to show solidarity in wearing a blue bracelet to show. See that they're safe. Yes. And while there, while that is going on, there is another movement of the 92% of African American women who are like, I, I'm done. Uh I'm gonna focus on me. Worry about me. Chill, relax because I thought we all thought we came together. But apparently the memo didn't get reached to everyone and they're not, they're not hating the blue bracelet, but they're not accepting it either. They, they, they think it shows, um, it's performative. |
| 0:14:47.16 | 87.9s | Ingrid Nuttall | Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think it is, um, my perspective is that it is for the wearer of the bracelet to c to make them feel like they're part of a movement to show that they're willing to take action. I'll, I'll say that like generously but, and I am sure there are some people that are doing it who have dedicated their time riches lives, whatever it is to action. But I don't feel for myself as long as I walk through the world with the, with the face that I have and the skin that I have and the hair that I have like a, it's a bracelet isn't gonna communicate anything that isn't like that counters what I know my identity, how that represents. And so all I can do is act like all I can do. And I think that's why I want to be with people. Like I just want to spend time with my people and with new people and build like social, continue to build and invest in communities where I feel safe and included. Um And recognizing where I don't feel safe and included, which I think is I don't feel as, I don't feel as safe and included for myself in non diverse groups. I just don't anymore. Um |
| 0:16:15.14 | 1.2s | Portia LaMarr | Wait, say that again. |
| 0:16:16.77 | 87.6s | Ingrid Nuttall | I, I, when I was so I, when I, when I was considering a job change, I was in a meeting with um a bunch of people who I had good social network relationships with and they were all white and they were mostly men and I had this realization like, I just didn't feel like I fit like I just didn't feel like I fit and it wasn't about my identity, like my identity fit there very well, but I didn't feel like my ideas fit. I didn't feel like my weirdo personality fit or my sense of humor or just like whatever it is like I just didn't feel like I fit and I think that I have found at least in, in the workplace, in my current workplace. Um I feel like a better sense of belonging because they don't look like those rooms. And I also, I say that with some hesitation because I also know that my presence doesn't make people feel the same way. But I'm just kind of trying to get, I just like, I just gotta deal with. That's my problem. Like that's like some of that is my problem. And I, I need to not overthink it and I need to not get into like some of the traps, go ahead Tashana. |
| 0:17:44.72 | 39.1s | Tashana Curtis | So that is so interesting because during the Black caucus, I had attended a little seminar, overcoming imposter thoughts and I brought that up to the, you know, black because that was the first time I've ever heard that term. So when you were just talking about that, that's immediately what came in my mind. It's your thoughts that you have on yourself of what others see, what we think others may see us as and I struggle with that a lot. I agree with that. I agree with you. |
| 0:18:24.64 | 1.8s | Ingrid Nuttall | Do you feel like |
| 0:18:28.52 | 19.0s | Ingrid Nuttall | like in your program Tashana as an example? Like you're in a classroom with a bunch of people? It's not a work situation like you're all there on your same merits and everything like that? Do you feel those same thoughts or do you, does it feel different kind of depending on the context you're in? Even though it's still like higher education? |
| 0:18:47.83 | 40.2s | Tashana Curtis | I think those thoughts come to me more in the workplace. No other no other environment but in the workplace, I feel those thoughts a lot. Um I feel um maybe I'm not smart enough to be in the room. And again, these are my thoughts. Um or maybe I'm not in the no crowd to be in the room, those type of things or like you say, I walk into a room and I'm the only black female in the room. So, yes though. And it bothers me. It's worrisome. Sometimes |
| 0:19:28.95 | 101.5s | Portia LaMarr | I have read some things in which, you know, I'm, I'm big into learning to understand imposter imposter syndrome. And no, I had never heard of impostor thinking until Tashana brought up and then we did a little digging and it made sense. But um I've read some things in which they have flipped imposter syndrome saying that it is not us. It is the environment, the environment didn't make you feel like it's OK to be the only black person in the room. The environment didn't make you feel like you may not know it all. But that's what we want because we want someone to ask the questions, help us dig deeper. And that is honestly what I have learned being on the it side. Now, I'm not saying that my impostor system is completely erased because of my environment. No. However, because it is more of a we are trying to figure it out and ask all the questions you have because it just helps propel whatever it is we're trying to do um that is encouraged over there and they want everyone's opinion like it is, it's, it's so encouraged that it's, it makes you go the other way because you're like, wait, I was learned not to ask questions. So now I'm not asking questions and now I don't know what to do. Like I'm frozen. But yeah, I, I thought about that like it is the environment and I know that we've had several discussions on, you know, what if you can't leave the environment then what you know, but it is, it is a lot of that, that feeling that you feel is because of the people around you are not giving you the leeway to be you |
| 0:21:11.39 | 16.7s | Ingrid Nuttall | Portia when we um were just kind of having a conversation last time you told a story about being in Vegas with your daughter. Do you mind bringing that up? Because I actually would like to relate it a little bit to this conversation a bit. |
| 0:21:28.26 | 196.5s | Portia LaMarr | So I was in Vegas just family trip. But you know, as you know, in Vegas there's a lot of conventions that go on our conferences and a lot of it conferences. These, it people be turning up. You hear me. But anyhow, uh it was in Vegas and my daughter and I first of all taking a preteen to Vegas. I don't know if that's a great idea, but it was fun for me because I don't like to gamble all that much. I don't like losing my money going off the story. Anyhow, she made me do other things in Vegas that I had always wanted to do, but my husband never did and we were just walking over to the uh Mirage to see the fountain show. I think it's the Mirage or is it De Blasio? However, Bellagio. Yes. Bellagio. Yes, because I'm going to get my crew together and we're still gonna ride it after watching. Um you know the movie anyhow, um walk, we were walking. If you've ever been to Vegas streets are super, super busy with all kind of characters. There's all kind of characters there. Um And I'm not meaning like cartoon, just meaning like different people, different backgrounds. And we were walking across the street and there was one person that I would like to guess was uh homeless, possibly uh and maybe a little intoxicated and it was a little aggressive that made you be aware, not that he was hurting anyone or, you know, really a fully acting upon the way he, he was portraying himself, but it just made you be aware and we were at a stop walk and it's me and my daughter and the guy is just, he's, he's going around just spitting out saying a lot of stuff very loud and you know, I, I got my eye on him but I also, you know, my daughter's here but I did not let me tell you this, I did not feel threatened. OK? I did not feel like, oh gosh, this is it. I'm gonna have to fight this man. I did not feel like that. It was just like, OK, you know, worst case scenario, I just walk even though the sign says don't walk. Not a big thing in Vegas cause they do that all the time. A lady who I'm going to assume was a white lady. I don't want to uh give put any, any, um any race upon a person. But that's what my assumption was. Once she saw this particular person being loud and, and obnoxious, she decided to cling towards me for safety. And the split second thought was, oh OK. And then it was girl, you gotta fight for yourself cause I gotta fight for mine. Me and mine like I don't got time to fight for you too. And that is kind of, I don't know where you're going with it. Anger, but that's kind of how after this, this election, a lot of the, the 92 presenters are like, I don't, I can't fight no more like I can't fight for you and me and I, and I think I've always have always said that sometimes, especially dealing with the caucuses sometimes like I, I understand that I identify as a woman but I can't do the woman stuff because I gotta do the black stuff first, you know. So that was my favorite story. |
| 0:24:44.93 | 57.5s | Ingrid Nuttall | Here's where I'm going with it. I think so. I, I just said a few minutes ago that I, where I felt like a better sense of belonging for myself was in environments that didn't that where it wasn't everybody looking like me. And in the back of my mind, like particularly when you told that story and like what Tashana said where she has to go into environments where she is the only person in the back of my mind. I ask myself, how am I like that woman that clung to you? Like when I say I wanna surround myself with community, I wanna surround myself with, with people who um I like and I care about just in the back of my mind is all of the identity pieces about that and how to like see someone for who they are. But also like, I love you guys like we like we like each other. I think you like me, we just like each other. You know, I'm white. Um You live with it |
| 0:25:42.56 | 12.0s | Tashana Curtis | and just because you're white, if I saw you on the street, I wouldn't try you. I just wouldn't because of, you know how the energy just, I wouldn't try you. |
| 0:25:55.28 | 5.9s | Ingrid Nuttall | Yeah. OK. Because I'm so white when you say try me, do you mean you wouldn't mess |
| 0:26:01.18 | 0.2s | Tashana Curtis | with |
| 0:26:01.41 | 0.2s | Ingrid Nuttall | me? |
| 0:26:01.60 | 6.3s | Tashana Curtis | I wouldn't mess with you. I wouldn't mess with you. You just look like the one like don't mess with her. |
| 0:26:08.2 | 1.9s | Portia LaMarr | Oh, I love that about that. |
| 0:26:10.20 | 1.3s | Tashana Curtis | Exactly. |
| 0:26:11.52 | 8.2s | Portia LaMarr | I'm so squeaky and that, but that's, that, that's what, wherever you're trying to go. And I think that's what we're trying to say. Like, you wouldn't have been that woman. That would have, |
| 0:26:20.0 | 92.5s | Ingrid Nuttall | I wouldn't, no, I would have never done that. But I think there's also the, like, that's a super obvious, like, kind of bizarre thing. But then there is the less bizarre nuanced things about like, just showing up in spaces every single day, like the places you're not in Vegas on a corner where that happens. But like, I'm always, I'm pretty much eight hours out of the day guaranteed to be in a situation where I'm with someone like Tashana who is the only Tashana in the room. And so I think about what that means for how to act, how to show up. And at the end of the day, it's like the antithesis of the blue bracelet for me personally, which is, I gotta, I gotta know it. I gotta own it. I gotta be like, this is the impact that I'm having on people. This is, this is the energy I bring the things, the things I am that's like that stuff matters and people are gonna feel about me how they're gonna feel about me. And the best I can do is show them with my actions and by building relationships with people. And if they don't want that, that's ok too like, I think that's, that's the other thing is like, that's ok too. I get it. Um I follow a lot of people on linkedin and watch a lot of content creators on linkedin, African American women who are really, like, go, go away, like go away. I'm gonna take care of myself and I think it's important. I wanna like, listen to that and hear that and not be like, can you tell me why you want me to go away? Like I just wanted, I'm just gonna go away. So it's a, it's a real interesting, I don't know. It's |
| 0:27:52.64 | 0.9s | Portia LaMarr | a, it, yeah, it's |
| 0:27:53.58 | 0.6s | Ingrid Nuttall | a thing. |
| 0:27:54.18 | 105.6s | Portia LaMarr | It is and it, it is. Yeah, I'm trying to think like I, when you were saying what you're saying and, and, and how you feel like you had to show up. I'm like, I think we've taken somehow the emphasis of human beings out of it and put it into like, OK, I'm gonna put my radar on the only black person in the room and I'm gonna help you. Thank you. However, please don't forget that I'm just a human being and just what is right for a person. Sometimes you can do that too. You know, you can, it's trying to find that balance between the two because yes, I say human being. However, being in that space as a black human being is, my experience is different and you understanding and knowing that is, is a great thing. And then acting accordingly. That doesn't mean go over the top. That doesn't mean randomly show I saw, I saw a tiktok where this lady was like, I was in Target and this lady just was trying her best to show me this blue bracelet. Like that doesn't mean that either. Like just, just be a human, like just be a human and it, you have to show up for human beings and that's on both sides, on the ones that look just like you and for ones that don't like, that's how I, that's how I look at it trying to say it nicely but, but not like I feel like at this point, more conversations need to be had as at, at a woman's caucus. You know what I mean? Like that's how it is. That's what I'm thinking. |
| 0:29:43.19 | 10.5s | Ingrid Nuttall | Me again. Last transition. I promise we circled back to Tashana's comment about impostor thinking which actually led to a conversation about strength. Here's Portia, |
| 0:29:53.71 | 3.1s | Portia LaMarr | tell me a little bit more about this um impostor thinking. |
| 0:29:57.42 | 32.1s | Tashana Curtis | So this was um a leader camp series and the actual title is Overcoming Imposter Thoughts with Strength. And she just talked about, you know, our self image, the beliefs we have for ourselves, you know. So although yes, I'm black, I'm a woman. You're black, you're a woman. Our paths are different, you know, they're still different. |
| 0:30:30.36 | 0.7s | Portia LaMarr | Yeah. Flip phone. |
| 0:30:33.64 | 31.9s | Tashana Curtis | Yes. So, and amongst our culture, we have the whole colorism is going on. Um So yeah, just, just trying to gain the energy through my strengths, my strength suggests who Tashana is. And really, I'm at the age now where I don't give a damn darn what people are saying. Um I don't care anymore. I just don't care about that anymore. |
| 0:31:05.95 | 26.6s | Portia LaMarr | It as a sermon, you hear me a sermon because this is so outside of, of, of higher ed. But being a, a premenopausal woman who is going through that, I don't care. But having a teenage daughter who wants to talk about every drama under the sun and I gotta go, oh, why? She did what? Oh my gosh. When really? I wanna be like, girl, them girls don't matter. That's how I feel. But yes, I understand |
| 0:31:34.19 | 36.0s | Ingrid Nuttall | Tashana. What do you? So when you don't care about what other, yeah, when you don't care about what other people think, I think like the, the compendium to that is I really care about these parts of who I am that I wanna like, hold on to no matter what anybody thinks. And I, and I am interested in, I've done a lot of reflection on that in myself over the past year. Like I'm interested if you have had those similar reflections and what are the things about you that you're like, I don't care if you don't like XYZ. I like these things about |
| 0:32:10.19 | 30.7s | Tashana Curtis | myself. My red locks, I don't care who does not like my locks or my long real fingernails. I don't care anymore. So the type of glasses I want to put on my face, um, you know, of course I'm gonna still remain professional but there are just certain things you can't tell me. I mean, you, first of all, you're a child to me, you can't tell me nothing. I don't care. I don't care. |
| 0:32:42.95 | 2.1s | Ingrid Nuttall | Portia. What about, you know, I don't, |
| 0:32:45.11 | 73.1s | Portia LaMarr | uh, I, I, let's say this, let's say I'm slowly creeping into the, I don't really care what you think about me and then I back out of it a lot. So, um, me personally, I don't care. I know I'm loud obnoxious. I know. Um, I talk a lot when you, when you get to know me, I, I know that like, and, and at this point I'm like, I'm doing a job that embraces that and, and needs that. So I'm like, huh? All these years, ha ha y'all told me be quiet and now look, um, but I'm gonna be honest, I do, I back away and that's because if it's, it's, I'm still learning that not knowing is ok. I have been raised in the professional world that you're supposed to know everything and they never encourage you to continue learning or to say you don't know is ok. So that is what I struggle with wanting to make sure I show everyone like no. Look, I do. I know it. I know what I'm doing when the honest truth is I don't. And that's, that's worse than trying to put, then putting on that facade of love. I know what I'm doing when I'm really not because I know I struggle on the back end. |
| 0:33:58.61 | 104.0s | Ingrid Nuttall | That is so, like, bizarre to me because the way that at least you and I met was because I met you virtually from a webinar. You did because of like, and this is why same thing with Tashana. It's like a vibe. It's like the way that you present yourself. I'm like that she knows, like she knows, she knows who she is and she knows what she's doing and she's not afraid to put herself out there and she's cool. Like I just thought both of you were cool and I think that it's so interesting that you would ever see yourself as needing to communicate to people that you know what you know, so that you can get into spaces where you wanna be because it is like, literally just how you show up. I had someone, I, I gave someone feedback, positive feedback yesterday like you are doing so well. And they said, I really need you to be specific about what I'm doing well so I can keep doing it. And my answer is like, I just like the way that you exist and are and the way that you respect people and the way that you listen and the way that you are able to have confidence in what, you know, so that you build trust with people, but also you don't know everything so you get other people to talk. It's like the way that you wade through the stuff to be real. And I think that's what I appreciate so much about both of you is that and, and, and being with you has allowed me to be more real. I like that. I'm, you know, a nerd |
| 0:35:44.6 | 44.7s | Portia LaMarr | 100%. That's what I feel I had comes off. Yes. You know, like no, this is me and that's, and keep it moving and I'm gonna keep on walking past if you don't like it like that is everything. But I also feel like that's when you, I look at what you just said, uh Ingrid as you know, looking at a superstar that is on stage performing in front of millions of people every night and then you find out later on like, no, I suffered from stage fright. No, I didn't like doing this. Not that they didn't like doing this. It, it took a lot to get to where they were to be comfortable and still have to do things to get to that stage. And it's just like, but wait, you do this all the time. That's what |
| 0:36:28.79 | 13.0s | Ingrid Nuttall | courage is. Courage is being afraid and doing it anyway. If you're not afraid, if there's not fear like that's Tashana in school like all those things that's what, that's what it is. |
| 0:36:42.42 | 38.9s | Tashana Curtis | So when you say courage and fear, like for example, I am a horrible public speaker, even if I'm reading off the prompter or my notes, I'm still a horrible speaker because I start getting nervous. My anxiety starts it and, and then I just go off the script. I have the courage, but I just don't know, something just switches off and me and I just start getting really nervous. And then what also happens if I'm feel like I'm being challenged, then I start getting defensive. So it really takes me off the script of the message. I'm trying to put out there. |
| 0:37:21.85 | 1.7s | Ingrid Nuttall | Do you wanna public speak? |
| 0:37:24.86 | 3.8s | Tashana Curtis | Um At this age, I don't care like I'm, I'm good |
| 0:37:28.92 | 0.4s | Ingrid Nuttall | and I think |
| 0:37:30.26 | 42.9s | Portia LaMarr | that's the, yeah, I think that is the approach. I think that you can, I think that knowing who you are and seeing the script, you feel like, OK, I see the script, you may or may not even either inform the people but you like, I can see it and I can go with it, but I also may freestyle, you know, and this is just a little part of all of that in which you are now incorporating yourself into it, which makes it a little bit easier as opposed to script. The script has me doing everything like this and I can't really and not that you're even thinking this way, but it's, it's, you're trying to stick to what that person wants you to say when really you, you just got to incorporate yourself. |
| 0:38:13.18 | 66.9s | Ingrid Nuttall | And what the heck do you think this is you public speak with us every month? And not only do you do that? You do cha like you do challenge you push back, we push back on you. Like I think this is maybe this is just the forum in the way that you engage in representing your ideas and your thoughts that works for you. Being a stage on a stage behind a podium in front of a microphone is not like a value in life. And I think um it's, it, it can be perceived that way. Um And I think it's worth asking why we, why we like that. Like why are conferences like that? You know, it's an interesting thing about conferences. My favorite part of conferences are the round tables. It's when everybody is together and they're communicating and they're in community with each other. That doesn't mean I haven't been to some unbelievable presentations where people have done that. But like I would say Tashana, you, you public speak in, in the spectrum of public speaking, you do it um and you do it, you do it well and you make us all better for it. |
| 0:39:20.7 | 33.5s | Tashana Curtis | Well, nobody, like I told Portia before at a meeting, no one can see me, you know. So I guess, and I guess another thing I'm comfortable with you, ladies even if we have a guest on our show, just we can only see each other. And I don't know. Again, that's just something instilled in me. Um, and at one point I was trying to fix it, like taking these public speaking courses and things like that. But now I'm not gonna say I don't care but you know what it is, |
| 0:39:53.69 | 0.6s | Portia LaMarr | I don't |
| 0:39:54.71 | 0.5s | Tashana Curtis | clock |
| 0:39:55.20 | 153.8s | Portia LaMarr | that. I, I don't, I honestly don't think that's a bad thing. I think there's a difference between, I don't care, but I don't care. But, you know, personal growth is still what you want, you know. So I don't think that it is bad to do that. II, I have a, a uh uh I, I'm fascinated with my whole team, like, just if you all have not heard any other episode or haven't heard, like I will speak so highly of the people that I work with. Um but one of the developers, he is in any and every different little thing and I know that's part of his personal development, but he does an improv and improv is something where, you know, you are saying yes and you're not going by the script, you know, but you are getting comfortable and talking in front of other people. So I don't think, and I know that Toastmasters does that too, right? I think that's what it's called. I don't think that's wrong if you want to have some improvement in that. And and it seems as if really it is just the fear of having people. I think you, you have the words, you have the knowledge. It is just the fact that you see people there and you're like, oh God, I have to be a certain way to do a certain thing when that's not the case because half of the people are there just to hear your knowledge and hear what you have to say. You are the expert and they have no idea. Nor do they care of how you got there or what's going on behind the scenes or what words you messed up on or how, how everything could have went wrong up until you put your face to the, to the camera or the mic to say what you had to say. Like that's just, that's it is what it is and, and also the more practice, the better, not the more comfortable all the time, but the better you'll feel like OK, yeah, I, I, and it's more, the more practice, the more knowing how you will be, which will be. I'm gonna be scared. I'm gonna be nervous but I'm gonna get through it and move on. My, my only my thought that I always do or my trick is I always imagine myself. It, it being over, it's done. Like if I'm uh if, if we want to put ourselves in an environment AACRAO conference, I have a session. I imagine myself already back in my hotel room chilling because that means I've done it. I've gotten through it and I moved on. Um, and that's just, that's actually with a lot of work that I do. I'm like, ok, I have procrastinated. I have done all of this but, and I have not gotten it done. Let me buckle down. I imagine myself like it's over cool and then I get through it. But yeah, I think I just think practice, you'll be fine. You have every other thing. I just think it's actually seeing people in front of you, |
| 0:42:29.48 | 5.1s | Tashana Curtis | Portia. I wanna let you know your curls are popping. I mean, I, I see |
| 0:42:36.50 | 16.7s | Portia LaMarr | like I'm actually trying to dry it still and then scrunch it up. So that's why I keep doing this. I'm not like at me it is literally out the shower. This is a good product and it's not dry fully. And I was like, I'm about to be going out in the streets and it's cold outside. I don't want my hair wet. So yeah, |
| 0:42:53.22 | 4.5s | Ingrid Nuttall | my my curls are more like a cocker. You know how cocker spaniel's ears when they get wet, |
| 0:42:57.75 | 0.2s | Portia LaMarr | they |
| 0:42:57.96 | 0.2s | Ingrid Nuttall | started |
| 0:42:58.21 | 0.4s | Portia LaMarr | to do |
| 0:42:58.58 | 3.8s | Ingrid Nuttall | that like little. That's what, that's, that's how my |
| 0:43:02.35 | 18.8s | Portia LaMarr | wet. So OK, I've heard a lot of people uh be like um and I don't know what your background, your culture background is made of, but I've seen a lot of it's called maybe Irish Curls or something. Like that where they're like, it looks and presents a straight and then like they lift up this part and it's just like, uh, |
| 0:43:21.42 | 3.1s | Ingrid Nuttall | and it makes that noise when you lift it up too. |
| 0:43:25.18 | 0.8s | Portia LaMarr | It goes, |
| 0:43:37.47 | 15.1s | Ingrid Nuttall | thanks for listening to another episode of H.E.A.R.D. We'd love to hear from you. Please send us an email at HEARD at aacrao.org with any feedback you have for us or show ideas. This episode was produced by Doug Mackey. Thanks Doug. |